Hi Martin, welcome to the forum. 

I think you need to ask more questions. A cowl shouldn't need removing before sweeping. It's more likely they are referring to a damper in the fire place? Is it an open fire or stove? If the customer can't explain clearly, all you can do is go and have a look or ask them to provide photos.

 

Good luck!

Hello Skyesweep.  It could be they have had a flue draught reducing device fitted to stop the stove (I suspect it is a stove) from overfiring. It's very uncommon where I live, I only know of one, but may be required where you are due to high winds. It should all have been installed so that you can somehow get at the chimney without removing the appliance and without going on the roof.

Thanks to all for the advice. Martin

Well.......turns out the AD cowl has been cemented in and the person who fitted it said " it shouldn't need sweeping for a few years, so should be ok" ! Anyway despite it being a very nice house ect the stove was placed about 12 inches off the floor on a plinth and completely enclosed by wooden cladding. The baffle was the least of my concerns.
The baffle itself apparently is there to stop the stove over firing and was a small round flap in the flu pipe about 6 inches above the stove.

The customers suspected that it didn't comply and are deciding whether to replace it all or sweep the chimney themselves from the roof down........

Thanks for all the advice and follow up.

Martin

Yikes! if they sweep it from the roof down, where does all the soot go? Any pictures of the wood cladding? Next years chimney horrors isopen!

I have had a few nightmares. There is only one other sweep in my area, he is a jack of all trades and has fitted half the stoves in the area as well. The other half seem to be DIY jobs.
I could probably run my own chimney horrors page here. It's slightly worrying and disheartening when about 50% of my jobs are not sweepable as they don't conform. I'm a little worried that in a small community I will just get a reputation of being fussy about what I will sweep.
Lots of people seem to do their own sweeping from the top down, seems to be an old tradition.

skyesweep wrote:

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I have had a few nightmares. There is only one other sweep in my area, he is a jack of all trades and has fitted half the stoves in the area as well. The other half seem to be DIY jobs.
I could probably run my own chimney horrors page here. It's slightly worrying and disheartening when about 50% of my jobs are not sweepable as they don't conform. I'm a little worried that in a small community I will just get a reputation of being fussy about what I will sweep.
Lots of people seem to do their own sweeping from the top down, seems to be an old tradition.

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If you have a website with lots of convincing explanation of all the common non-conformities and dangerous situations (pictures etc.) you can explain the problem, the safety issues and dangers and then offer the solutions / right / safe way. The website info acts like 3rd party advice and people can absorb it at their own pace.

People can contest it if they like, if it's right it's right. You are the professional, not them and if you keep at it you'll become the expert. It won't be easy but will be worth it.

 

Hi Martin,

When I started last year I was a little concerned like you at the number of non compliant installations. Keep the faith, as long as you point out the issues and offer solutions you will get a reputation as someone who knows what they are talking about, when people do their own research. Some people will be happy that you have pointed out a dangerous install and some will not, some will want it sorting and some won't care. Don't stress about it, you have done them a favour either way as they now know whats wrong.

You'll be fine, Andy Terminator Tennant is calling you tomorrow

Hi Martin,

Welcome to the forum, I can sympathise with your problem, there will be a lot of horrid installs in Skye.

In Scotland we don't have Doc J but the Scottish Building regulations which are very similar to Doc J. Installers don't have to be HETAS registered (although there are a few HETAS fitters about) but they do have to fit in compliance with the Scottish regulations. Here is a link to the regs:

http://www.gov.scot/Resource/0047/00478106.pdf

look at section 3.17 onwards. I would advise printing it out and keeping a copy in the van - then you can show customers.

If you can clearly and calmly explain to people that their stove doesn't comply with building regulations and what could be the potential risk - most sensible people will be grateful. The ones who don't care - there's not much you can do about them.

I think it is important to remember that you are giving people bad news and usually it is not their fault. They have paid money to get a job done and they trusted the tradesman to do it properly. Also just give the facts - don't bad mouth the installer - be very careful what you say - it can be exaggerated and reported back to the installer and he might be a bigger than you.

Here is a tale of one of the problem installs I went to that I went back to this weekend.

I was asked to go out and sweep a stove with a liner back in early April. Alarm bells started ringing when on the call the customer asked if I had ladders to be able to sweep down from the top. After some questioning as to why this was needed she said that the previous sweep had got his brush stuck on a bend in the liner and had needed to go on the roof to sweep down to get the top of the liner.

I advised that I would not sweep down, but had a Viper and flexible liner rods so didnt forsee problems sweeping it, but if his brush had got stuck there may be damage to the liner so I would go out and look at it and CCTV the flue. On carrying out the CCTV inspction it was evident that the liner had been pushed off the adaptor above the flue pipe as it was not screwed on. It was also clear from the state of the stove and what lliner I could see that they had been burning wet wood. I pointed out the issue and he asked me to speak to the installer, who he phoned while I was there. I did and he explained that back when this was installed he wasnt screwing the adaptors on but now did. I wasnt able to sweep it and the customer was to get the installer to sort it out and then call me back.

I heard no more and assuemd that the installer had not been happy at having to go back and perhaps either swept it himself of recommended another sweep. Actually the customer called me back last week and I went to sweep it on Saturday. The installer had put it right, and also re-imbursed the cutomer for my CCTV fee, given him a free flue pipe thermometer and moisture meter and gone through the issue of burning wet wood with him, as I had done.

I suppose the moral is that in the end the customer was happy that his installation was fixed, the installer although perhaps not happy at having to go back, was at least greatful to be given the opportunity to fix it and maintain goodwill and the customer was greatful to me and happy to get me back once it was put right. He also now understands the importance of burning dry wood and not shutting the stove down.

Phucked.... that should become a proper flueological word . Well done Andrew!

I am a bit softer than Andrew about charging and like the way that if you run a business you can choose the ethics by which you run it.
If I've not got much involved but can see the issues and that it is not sweepable I just give free advice sometimes a Hazard notice. I recommend some one to fix it and don't charge on the understanding that that they will probably rebook (and I expect will be a very loyal customer).

Well there is a long lead in time to most of them , I'd say 80 percent have come back and I don't know of any that have gone elsewhere except the phone advice ones.

I always charge a call out fee as it has cost me in time and diesel to get there, time to examine and discuss the issue with the customer and the cost of a warning notice and label. I have never had anyone object to the charge which is about 70% of my sweep fee. I have ended up going back to a good proportion to either carry out the repairs or sweep the chimney when another fitter I recommend in the busy period goes to repair it. I then charge a full sweep fee. I am providing a service to the customer by examining and condemning their appliance and therefore charge for that service.

Do you charge if you look and see it is a nest and they book you in to do it in September with a sweep, ladder and guard. £230?